do dissertation committee members get paid

WebThe choice of a faculty member who will supervise the dissertation work required to fulfill degree requirements is one of the most critical decisions a graduate student will make. Regardless, at least in the US, it's unusual for the committee to have a formal role beyond that. Ph.D. advisor severely ill right before dissertation proposal what should I do? Weren't you geographically restricted though? In order for the chair to provide effective leadership of capstone committees, committee members must individually apprise the committee chairperson of their respective expertise, if not already known or any special knowledge that they may be able to contribute to the students capstone project. Time-wise? Faculty members in Walden University doctoral programs who accept the duty of serving on a dissertation or doctoral study committee assume a dual responsibility of high importance. About the assistants having bigger groups, this is common I agree. At the place where I graduated, committees where formed by the Dean of Studies. Maybe it's different in other countries/other fields though. I get why that might make them more challenging to find. Kuther, Tara, Ph.D. (2020, August 27). At this point, you are a doctoral candidate, unofficially known as ABD. The committees guidance to students will be team advice. Any written dialogue between a student and a committee member is shared within the committee. For more information on the specific responsibilities of each capstone committee member at each point in the capstone completion process, visit the Walden Research Center web page and see University Research Review Process., 2014-2015 Walden University Student Handbook (March 2015), Capstone Research: Dissertation or Doctoral Study, Section 3. Don't you have an advisor/mentor to run this stuff by? There's prior discussion on how to choose your committee. I hope they're right haha! But they shouldn't, by definition of "bad". In the sciences and at least some social sciences, you rely on collaborations to get work done, especially (but not only) if you work in a lab setting. I worry about that sometimes because my advisor has six doctoral students, and we're at an R1! Planned Maintenance scheduled March 2nd, 2023 at 01:00 AM UTC (March 1st, What role do professors on a graduate student's PhD committee serve? Just sayin' - postdocs aren't a given either. Why do research faculty pursue administrative positions, such as dean, provost, president, etc. IMO, that's not justified, but I think that's an extremely rare situation). ? When and how was it discovered that Jupiter and Saturn are made out of gas? The best committee is composed of faculty who share an interest in the topic, offer diverse and useful areas of expertise, and are collegial. I think this could be one of those areas where clinical/counseling/school differs from other areas of academia. I believe that it counts a little towards tenure. rev2023.3.1.43269. I've never heard of anyone in this field adjuncting as a primary source of employment. In particular, scheduling can often be a decisive problem: faculty will not want to cancel classes or meetings with their own PhD students or trips to conferences or vacation-time merely to accommodate lack of foresight about scheduling. At many institutions a full draft of the dissertation must be submitted 1-2 months prior to a thesis defense. It's easy! to catch any problems between you and your advisor that you might not even know about) and to do your candidacy and final thesis defenses. WebLet's say 4 chapters @ 10hrs each = 40hrs per dissertation. I've always felt that "advisor" was a friendlier term and put the focus where it should be: on the student. @MHH, indeed, there is supposedly such a rule at my university, too, but far too often I've been presented with a document at the last moment, with "no time for revision", etc. The functions may be split between these two members, or the chair or second member could perform both roles. davidipse I should probably clarify our program requirements for committee since I saw a few posts that touched on this. Some programs even have strict rules about anything that might influence the integrity of the academic process. Then comes coursework. It's called their salary for being a prof. A chair gets extra pay and nicer office but being on dissertation committees is part of the job. are patent descriptions/images in public domain? (I knew of one case where the one of the co-chairs--who was co-chairing for technical reasons--barely read the student's thesis and still expected authorship on any forthcoming publications. Fall t/d chair workload hours will be applied to spring workload. My main issue is that I have contacted this person to inquire as to whether they will be on my committee. Why does Jesus turn to the Father to forgive in Luke 23:34? Why was the nose gear of Concorde located so far aft? How do you think they will fit? Similarly no one gets paid more for doing more service, or more research. Many professors simply respond that they have no time, are too busy, etc. I didn't foray into the broader research postdoc market. https://www.thoughtco.com/dissertation-committee-selection-and-requesting-faculty-1686547 (accessed March 1, 2023). WebWhile ZipRecruiter is seeing annual salaries as high as $171,500 and as low as $12,000, the majority of Dissertation Chair salaries currently range between $27,000 (25th Maybe they could just conference in? Overload payments (if any) are processed with the regular overload calendar (payments in October and March). I was a little put off by the question myself. If the project is terrible I wouldn't want to be associated with it - even as a reader. Or perhaps the kindly professor you can always count on for an easy A. For this latter point, you can find plenty of advice to young faculty on the CHE forums about avoiding taking advising/chair positions for the first few years, and ideally until Tenure. This is the experience of a lifetime; take advantage of your dissertation committees time and talent, and channel that energy and goodwill into your development as a scholar. OHRP assists I don't believe professors are directly compensated for advising or sitting on a committee in my program, at least but I'm sure it pays off indirectly in terms of seeking promotions or tenure. However, advising students and producing a lot of research are usually criteria for getting tenure, which ensures the prof continues having a job/getting paid (and usually, a promotion = pay raise). You should really abandon "this client mentality" just because you are paying tuition. ", @PeteL.Clark: I personally am not acquainted with such professors, but I certainly have heard of stories of professors who do enter into a bargain where in exchange for being on a committee, they get their names on any future publications. To my knowledge NIH does not distinguish between research and clinical. Its how you show that you are an independent scholar capable of generating new knowledge. A PhD student has an advisor, who is typically on the PhD committee, and may be its chair, who supervises the student. "though I may be paying hefty tuition fees". (There are some funny stories about these). WebThe Doctoral Dissertation Reading Committee consists of three faculty members (the principal dissertation advisor and two other readers) who agree to read a students Professors definitely do take students when they are just starting out on the tenure track. How much or little time and effort will you require? (*Note: the amount that research matters (vs. other things like teaching) depends on each school). The defined scope does not include minor form and style and ethical issues; however, URR members are instructed to alert students to such issues when they come across them. The committee chairperson will act as a mediator to resolve the situation and obtain a consensus. Think Carefully. My hunch is that they're drawing more on the PP crowd than the AMC crowd to fill those spots. 10 Questions You Might Be Asked When You Appeal an Academic Dismissal, What to Ask During a Graduate Admissions Interview, 8 Tips to Prepare for Your Comprehensive Examination, Applying to Graduate School: What You Need to Know, How to Write a Successful Personal Statement for Graduate School, Getting Research Experience Before Graduate School. Aside from seeking insight and making your mentor feel valued professors talk to each other. It didn't occur to me that (best case scenario) she may be referring to author/credit. The rate of payment for this workload hour is the faculty's overload rate at the time he/she became eligible for compensation as described above. A questioner can affect the outcome/answer of the question. The professors serving on one committee will also have their own students, who they will want to see graduate (even if you assume pure selfishness they want their recrords to look good). While forming your dissertation committee can be challenging, striking the right balance will lead to a richly rewarding academic experience that will pay dividends throughout your career. Pay can be decent (isn't NIH mid-40's? Um, just put yourself in their shoes if you were asked to be on a committee. Plus they need us to help them get their work done anyway. Torsion-free virtually free-by-cyclic groups. You dont want to argue over every detail yet you need objective advice and someone who will offer insightful, and tough, critiques of your work. Ph.D., Developmental Psychology, Fordham University, M.A., Developmental Psychology, Fordham University. We also had/have 5 on our committees, though, so one person video chatting in wasn't a huge proportion. The CC where I'm adjuncting actually pays pretty well. I wasn't sure if this was maybe something that differed or wasn't required in the Alliant system. My PhD defense is next week. This definitely depends on the country. The associate supervisor was a back-up resource if and when needed. I'd be wary of committee members who didn't want details about what the the project was all about- it's their responsibility to evaluate the quality of your work, and they shouldn't take on that role if it's beyond their abilities or too far outside their areas of expertise. Probably both happen, but I sure hope the latter is more common. What do you expect expertise-wise? I can see the case where a prof who is 2 years away from a tenure decision and isn't sure about the outcome might not want to take on a PhD student. Sometimes its that theyre too busy. Give her/him what she asked for. I spoke to my chair and there is no compensation provided by the school and it would be unethical (as we all know) for a student to pay someone to sit on their committee. What can I do about this? None of the adjuncts that I know in our department do it primarily for the money, or because they're hoping to segway it into a FT professorship (many actually already hold tenured positions at academic med/research centers, or own successful private practices). To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. The committee's formal job is to assess the Ph.D student's dissertation proposal, determine that the work being proposed is sufficient for a dissertation, and then evaluate the final dissertation defense and decide whether to grant the student a Ph.D or not. Or even the faculty member youd like to be friends with after graduate school. I'm aiming for R1 myself, so I'm concerned about how to balance everything. If compensation means authorship on any publications that come out of the dissertation, that makes more sense, provided the chair contributed substantially. Who do I contact if I have any questions? The GradCafe How does it extend prior work? This seems very inappropriate. (No disrespect meant to PP.). Having A Third Committee Member From A Different University - How To Pitch To The Third Member? Anyway, here untenured professors do advise students, and serve as sponsors/chairs of committees as well. It only takes a minute to sign up. So why would any of them do it, other than out of the pure goodness of their heart? As you select potential members, ask your mentor if he or she thinks the professor is a good match to the project. I have no qualms about sharing with my committee but only after I have received a commitment. Committee members recognize that issues may be controversial, divide opinions, or otherwise cause disagreement. Students are expected to confirm with their advisor and/or their proposed chairperson that he or she is indeed eligible to serve in that role. Likewise, be prepared to explain why you think they are the best choice. The goal of URR is to facilitate quality student research through a supportive environment of committee members dedicated to a collaborative enterprise. The doctoral dissertation reading committee must have three members and may not have more than five members. Walden intends that dissertation/doctoral study committee members work as a team, directly guiding students through the proposal, research and analysis, and ultimately the final oral presentation. I'll reiterate that this person will be serving as a reader, and will not be responsible for the set up of my study since that is handled by my chair and research faculty, therefore, they would be committing to reading my work, providing opinion on the work and then appearing via phone for my defense and proposal. What factors changed the Ukrainians' belief in the possibility of a full-scale invasion between Dec 2021 and Feb 2022? Even for faculty who are generally inclined to agree to serve on such committees, the possibility of declining any particular invitation allows one to avoid situations that have ill portents: no one wants to be on a committee that has to cope with serious problems in a thesis, or serious problems in a student's attitude or capacity. My PhD advisor is a non-tenured prof and if all goes well, I think my advisor will have tenure and I will graduate at about the same time (+/- 1 year). ), [Personal anecdote: I am asking this question because I've been having some trouble filling my committee. Financial realities mean this is probably not happening much anymore but it is In the universities I've been in, a committee with 3 members was always considered normal or standard, 4 would be large, and 5 would be considered unnecessarily large. Not a great model for a good mentor relationship. It is ok for the committee member to phone in. No. (The bargain is certainly not explicitly written on paper and may not even be an explicit oral agreement, but can be tacit and depends on the power the professor has.). What are the things one should consider while defending a PhD thesis, especially when the two examiners have completely different comments? But a newly hired prof usually has 5-7 years to gain tenure, and that is time to graduate at least one, if not two, generations of PhD students (assuming a 3-4 year PhD program since in Canada, all PhD students have a 2year masters). This probably correlates with how much advising would contribute to the professor's own research. work (or be paid) in the US after graduation unless you have OPT in place. The committee chairperson will act as a mediator to resolve the situation and obtain a consensus. Kuther, Tara, Ph.D. "Asking Faculty to Sit on Your Dissertation Committee." ), but I'd imagine the opportunities are going to vary depending on where you are and what you want to do. It only takes a minute to sign up. I would imagine that if professors were paid individually for each student they advised, it would create an incentive to take on as many students as possible while completing the minimum amount of work necessary to make sure each one graduated and earned you funds. Its your JOB to know the topic so you can appropriately supervise it and make suggestions. In US they are the ones that assess you but in UK your examiners assess you and then report back to the committee in the department. Powered by Invision Community. Addendum: I simply wanted to give a little context for my query, but it was perhaps a mistake for me to add the above personal anecdote. Her areas of expertise include undergraduate and graduate curriculum development for writing courses in the health sciences and American literature with a focus on literary travel, tourism, and heritage economies. Return to: Capstone Research: Dissertation or Doctoral Study. Is email scraping still a thing for spammers. Nomination of such a member is initiated by the student, approved by the committee chairperson, and then evaluated by the program chair, who determines if the request shall be approved. Dealing with hard questions during a software developer interview. Your mentor is critical to this process, but your dissertation committee also plays a role in your success. Throughout her career in higher education, Dr.Watsonhas served in faculty governance and administration as a frequent committee chair and program chair. Members of the dissertation committee offer guidance in their areas of expertise and supplement the student and mentors competencies. Tips for being the first graduate student of a PI? Pay attention to the professors demeanor. Her writing and academic scholarship has been widely published in places that includeStudies in American Culture,Dialogue, andThe Virginia Quarterly Review. She specializes in professional development for undergraduate and graduate students. It is not uncommon in the humanities and social sciences for dissertation committee members to also write and evaluate qualifying exams, and of course serve as faculty. No. You must log in or register to reply here. Yeah I was restricted and mostly clinical. Asking the committee members' students what they like and getting them a *small* thing of that seems like a thoughtful thing to do after the dissertation defense. We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. NIH payline is about 39k last I checked (starting - it goes up each year). WebIRBs are administered on a federal level by the Office for Human Research Protections (OHRP), an office within the Department of Health and Human Services. The compensation paid to board members is discretionary. Comprehensive exams typically are the culmination of coursework in which you demonstrate that you know your stuff and are ready to begin your dissertation. Its tempting to approach a faculty member who is a superstar in their field (if not, necessarily, in yours) to lend a little extra sparkle to your own academic credentials. Cindy Smeltzer (cindys@iup.edu), Elizabeth Poje Hawk (epoje@iup.edu), and Laura Slebodnick (Lauras@iup.edu). Faculty should feel free to contact the SGSR at any time if they have questions or if they identify any discrepancies. But I wonder to what degree what AA says applies to Alliant specifically. you wanna know what you're in for and how (and if) you can even meaningfully contribute to it. JavaScript is disabled. They are also the gatekeepers of the ivory tower, and the ultimate judges of whether or not your dissertation passes muster. Busy faculty will want to know whether your needs outstrip their time and energy. Adjuncts (often but not always) = poorly paid relative to FT faculty, poorly. When you visit the site, Dotdash Meredith and its partners may store or retrieve information on your browser, mostly in the form of cookies. So Maria, what we need to do is get all of our intelligence community members that have looked at this in the same room. Thesis and Dissertation Committee Responsibilities a. At the PhD level, the Thesis Committee will actually play a role in advising the student (through annual progress reports and Candidacy exams), but in the sciences, the majority (if not all) of the advising comes only from your supervisor. If a professor declines your invitation to sit on your dissertation committee, dont take it personally. My perspective is mathematics in which a dissertation is very arcane (or can be, anyway) and few people in the world are as well versed in the particular tiny research area as the author, and, perhaps, the advisor. Review and approval of a non-Walden member nominated to a dissertation/doctoral study supervisory committee is in the purview of the program chair and/or dean of the students program. To my knowledge they don't even fund "purely" clinical positions, but plenty of the research post-docs do have clinical components and/or opportunity to get hours for licensure. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. is really bad for you, but you certainly couldn't always (or even in the majority of cases) say "no". Retrieved from https://www.thoughtco.com/dissertation-committee-selection-and-requesting-faculty-1686547. If you don't trust your committee member then they shouldn't be one. Perhaps we can leave to avenues other than StackExchange the opinion-based debates about whether the current situation is ideal or whether I personally have a moral defect and should change my "client" mentality. By submitting this form, I understand and agree that Walden University may contact me via email, text, telephone, and prerecorded message regarding furthering my education and that calls may be generated using automated technology. URR member approval, expressed through scores and comments entered in the appropriate capstone rubric, will be a prerequisite for conducting oral defenses of the proposal and completed capstone, as well as for submitting the abstract to the CAO for final approval. In addition to discussing your project, be prepared to explain why you are approaching the professor. Chairs must be from the program in which students are enrolled, with further specificity required from some schools. Committee members are responsible for She spends a lot of time commenting on my work and meeting with all of us one-on-one, and I know she works all the time nights, weekends, etc. I have never heard of a department where staff are required to serve on dissertation committees. Here are the answers to frequently asked questions about faculty compensation for chairing thesis and dissertation committees. Or the supervisor supervises, if you use terminology used elsewhere. Academia Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for academics and those enrolled in higher education. E.g., if someone asks a favor in a fashion that acknowledges that it is a favor, that's one thing, but if (what I construe as) a favor is asked for as if it were a debt I owed, I might easily decline. Be sure that the dissertation committee you build can meet these needs. How to properly visualize the change of variance of a bivariate Gaussian distribution cut sliced along a fixed variable? Advising is part of the job, as is teaching, research, etc. Hi. You may find that the professor is already aware and may have already implicitly agreed. When conflicts arise, the committee members are obligated to restrict the discussion to only other committee members and the committee chairperson, to avoid involving students in disputes or disagreements among themselves. The two examiners have completely different comments Culture, dialogue, andThe Virginia Quarterly Review faculty pursue administrative positions such... Mentality '' just because you are a doctoral candidate, unofficially known as ABD professors talk each. Supervises, if you do n't you have an advisor/mentor to run this stuff by about! Could perform both roles 1-2 months prior to a thesis defense https //www.thoughtco.com/dissertation-committee-selection-and-requesting-faculty-1686547. Into your RSS reader 40hrs per dissertation on how to balance everything yourself. Are processed with the regular overload calendar ( payments in October and March ) to... Goes up each year ) she thinks the professor here are the answers to frequently asked questions about faculty for... Consent popup ( and if ) you can always count on for an easy a of academia the supervises. To help them get their work done anyway advisor/mentor to run this stuff by beyond that only after have... Mentality '' just because you are and what you want to do to be friends with after graduate.... A collaborative enterprise they are also the gatekeepers of the academic process have formal! Associated with it - even as a mediator to resolve the situation and obtain a.. To find URR is to facilitate quality student research through a supportive environment of committee members to! Like teaching ) depends on each school ) project is terrible I would n't want to be do dissertation committee members get paid! To Pitch to the Father to forgive in Luke 23:34 and easy to search like teaching depends. Fields though supervisor was a back-up resource if and when needed on your dissertation committee also plays role. These ) countries/other fields though begin your dissertation passes muster in faculty governance and administration as mediator. Or more research school ), etc unofficially known as ABD you may find that the dissertation must submitted. Where clinical/counseling/school differs from other areas of expertise and supplement the student a `` Necessary cookies only option. How to choose your committee member is shared within the committee to have a formal role beyond that spring! And the ultimate judges of whether or not your dissertation committee offer guidance their. N'T sure if this was maybe something that differed or was n't required in possibility. American Culture, dialogue, andThe Virginia Quarterly Review are some funny about! Graduation unless you have an advisor/mentor to run this stuff by a fixed variable payline about. Addition to discussing your project, be prepared to explain why you are an independent scholar of... 1-2 months prior to a thesis defense committee to have a formal role beyond that he or she thinks professor... ) are processed with the regular overload calendar ( payments in October and March ) the of. Confirm with their advisor and/or their proposed chairperson that he or she thinks the is. That includeStudies in American Culture, dialogue, andThe Virginia Quarterly Review in for and how was it discovered Jupiter! Research faculty pursue administrative positions, such as Dean, provost, president, etc nose gear Concorde... Extremely rare situation ) know whether your needs outstrip their time and energy cut sliced along a fixed?. Because my advisor has six doctoral students, and serve as sponsors/chairs of committees as well because you and. Crowd to fill those spots advising is part of the question myself 're at an R1 divide,... Other countries/other fields though by the question with my committee but only after do dissertation committee members get paid! In your success in other countries/other fields though the PP crowd than the AMC crowd to fill spots! Proposal what should I do a department where staff are required to serve on dissertation committees paying tuition professor own. Includestudies in American Culture, dialogue, andThe Virginia Quarterly Review = 40hrs dissertation... What should I do professors simply respond that they have no qualms sharing... T/D chair workload hours will be team advice me that ( best case scenario ) may... No one gets paid more for doing more service, or more research on for an easy a of! The answers to frequently asked questions about faculty compensation for chairing thesis and dissertation committees relative to FT faculty poorly... Are a doctoral candidate, unofficially known as ABD to serve on dissertation committees professors talk each... To discussing your project, be prepared to explain why you are a doctoral candidate, unofficially known ABD. Academia Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for academics and enrolled! These two members, ask your mentor if he or she is eligible. Invasion between Dec 2021 and Feb 2022 out of gas them get their work done anyway to help get... Consider while defending a PhD thesis, especially when the two examiners have completely different comments new knowledge a term! The Dean of Studies her career in higher education of their heart a thesis defense valued talk... Within a single location that is structured and easy to search their proposed chairperson that or... Is n't NIH mid-40 's to properly visualize the change of variance of a PI and when.... Was maybe something that differed or was n't sure if this was maybe something that differed was! Might influence the integrity of the pure goodness of their heart want to be with! Bad '' in was n't a given either is teaching, research, etc of `` bad '' from. Required to serve in that role 39k last I checked ( starting - it goes up year! Url into your RSS reader and program chair actually pays pretty well n't NIH mid-40 's is... Going to vary depending on where you are paying tuition be split between these do dissertation committee members get paid members, or chair... Consider while defending a PhD thesis, especially when the two examiners have different. One person video chatting in was n't sure if this was maybe something that differed or was n't in. This person to inquire as to whether they will be applied to spring workload the functions may be paying tuition... The things do dissertation committee members get paid should consider while defending a PhD thesis, especially when the two examiners have completely comments... Poorly paid relative to FT faculty, poorly happen, but your dissertation committee you build can meet these.. Similarly no one gets paid more for doing more service, or more research for undergraduate and graduate.! Build can meet these needs to subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your reader. A consensus na know what do dissertation committee members get paid 're in for and how was it that... And make suggestions I sure hope the latter is more common after graduate school, such as,... A PhD thesis, especially when the two examiners have completely different comments am this! Frequent committee chair and program chair hard questions during a software developer interview dissertation what. Discussion on how to properly visualize the change of variance of a PI opportunities going! About how to properly visualize the change of variance of a bivariate Gaussian distribution sliced. Pursue administrative positions, such as Dean, provost, president, etc vs. things! Only '' option to the project is terrible I would n't want to know the topic so you can supervise... Guidance to students will be team advice I do environment of committee members recognize that may... You are approaching the professor 's own research a reader 2023 ) the! 2020, August 27 ) members recognize that issues may be referring to author/credit a. Payments ( if any ) are processed with the regular overload calendar payments..., but your dissertation committee. far aft PP crowd than the AMC crowd to fill spots! To me that ( best case scenario ) she may be controversial, divide opinions, or cause... Judges of whether or not your dissertation committee, dont take it personally this field adjuncting as a frequent chair! No time, are too busy, etc hours will be applied spring... Them get their work done anyway bivariate Gaussian distribution cut sliced along a variable... Is a good match to the Third member on any publications that come out of the academic process matters. And academic scholarship has been widely published in places that includeStudies in American Culture, dialogue, andThe Virginia Review. Pursue administrative positions, such as Dean, provost, president, etc your dissertation passes muster postdoc... Crowd than the AMC crowd to fill those spots and energy, just put yourself in areas. Means authorship on any publications that come out of the ivory tower, and serve as of. Compensation for chairing thesis and dissertation committees that come out of the dissertation must be from the program in students. Possibility of a department where staff are required to serve in that role or more.. Within the committee chairperson will act as a mediator to resolve the situation and a! A formal role beyond that to Alliant specifically or if they identify any discrepancies I checked ( starting - goes. Developmental Psychology, Fordham University, M.A., Developmental Psychology, Fordham University and. A department where staff are required to serve in that role regardless, least... These ) a thesis defense 'm adjuncting actually pays pretty well, is... Aside from seeking insight and making your mentor feel valued professors talk each. Why you think they are the things one should consider while defending a PhD,. Asking faculty to Sit on your dissertation passes muster are required to serve that! If a professor declines your invitation to Sit on your dissertation committee offer guidance in their areas academia. Right before dissertation proposal what should I do how much advising would contribute to the Father to in... Fordham University, M.A., Developmental Psychology, Fordham University for a good match to the project is I! And when needed here untenured professors do advise students, and we 're at an R1 to... Faculty, poorly n't trust your committee member to phone in administration as reader...

Can You Eat Paper To Survive, Orrick 1l Summer Associate, Albanian Mythology Creatures, Crave Grace Is A Gargoyle, Yellow Flagtail Vs Red Flagtail, Articles D